'Absolute poverty has been wiped out in China'

from Rediff India

Pallavi Aiyar is someone whose words ooze confidence. Her enviable knowledge and wealth of experience can be gauged from the fact that she had many scholarships and awards to her name at an age when other gear up to be journalist-writers.

Armed with a learning of modern history from Oxford University and Masters in Global Media and Communications from London School of Economics, Beijing-based Pallavi has observed China as it has been shaping up to be a global superpower.

A star reporter of The Hindu and some other publications, Pallavi has written extensively on politics, society and development aspects of China. She has also traversed the communist nation, studying aspects and issues that concern it. Her book on China, which is awaited this year, is a personal account of her arrival in the country, learning Chinese in the University and then reporting events in China, and traveling within the country.

Pallavi spoke to Managing Editor Sheela Bhatt in Beijing to give her views on living in China and many other things.

"I have rather gone beyond seeing Beijing and Shanghai growing. One thing we must note is that China's growth is for real. Do not get fooled by the saying that China's growth is restricted to big cities and is not there as you go into interiors. There is a trickle-down effect everywhere. When you talk of cities -- whether it is second tier or third tier cities -- they are booming everywhere in China.

A lot of it is the fixed assets boom; a lot of it is about building activity. That is why you are getting crazy statistics that China is eating up world's one fourth of iron ore or that half of the world's steel production. It is crazy to see how much China is consuming resources from around the world. Basically, they are just building, building, building and building! That is real!�

It is different question whether China's growth is sustainable or not? I think, from economic point of view, it is sustainable. The problem might come on the political front. Right now, you have contradiction between increasingly liberalized economy and the continuing authoritarian government, which poses whole lot of contradictions everywhere along the line. The nature of one party system makes it very difficult for the party to correct itself.

It can correct itself in a superficial way, but it cannot correct it fundamentally. People are becoming richer, and as they become richer they are also becoming educated. The educated class is demanding, slowly, slowly. The uneducated peasants and workers are worse-off today than they were 30 years ago. Then, everybody was poor, but everybody was equal.

In the new economy, peasants do not have provision for health care, social security or education. Previously they had 'cradle to grave' employment and so on. Now, they see the gap between them and others who are very rich. There is a lot of corruption within the party. Poor are victims of this corruption and there are no independent channel to vent it.

There is no election system, they cannot even throw the corrupt guy out and bring in the new guy.

They have few temporary valves to vent out their frustrations. They don't have independent judiciary. The party appoints people in courts. The unions are illegal except the All China Trade Union, which is again the party organization and not an independent entity. Demonstration and strikes are illegal. So any kind of protests or fighting for your own rights is illegal.

About 25 million people have been laid off from the State-owned enterprises in the last five years. You have peasants whose lands have been grabbed by corrupt officials in cahoots with real estate developers. All those buildings that you see in cities were made after giving compensation, but not so in interiors where corruption was rampant.

Discontentment is there but it is not coming out because of the political system. Until now, they were able to mange so many contradictions because they have been delivering so much economic growth. When people are getting richer, richer and richer, your mind is on money.

The moment there will be an economic slowdown, the impact will be there. After all China's growth is 10 per cent since almost 20 years. Inflation is already highest in last 11 years. China's environment is in terrible shape, one of the worst in the world. The ability to absorb any kind of massive shock to the system -- whether it is health, economic or environment related -- is a suspect. On other hand, I must say that China has defied our expectations in the past.

In the 80s they said the bubble will bust, but it was not true. In the 90s they said China will collapse but it did not. I give them credit. They are very wily. While they cannot fix the fundamental problem, they can fix the problem on the surface. A lot of tweaking of the system is underway.

Also, China does not have an ordinary one-party dictatorship. They are not just interested in self-promotion and self-profit. They just do not want to take; there is a genuine giving back in building of the nation. That makes China different. It is not like a zero-sum game you find in Africa. Here it is like: I take but I also build the road. Corruption is there, but so is a delivery. The leadership genuinely wants China to grow. The benevolent dictatorship is coming in shape in China.
While talking about democracy in China I must say that it is totally ironic to see that young, educated and urban middle class that you find in Universities are some of the most politically-conservative people. Why is that? Because, they are the real beneficiaries of the reform process. As far as they are concerned, everything is getting better and better. They have all the social freedom they want.

China has essentially opened up in social sphere. There is freedom in society like example; they can choose who they want to marry, they can choose with whom and when they want to have sex with, they can choose the music they listen to they can choose which university they want to go, what job they want.

If there is democratic change, this middle class in city will be on same footing as some peasant sitting in village. In addition, this urban class is politically very apathetic. There is an unspoken conspiracy of silence about politics. Their parents do not talk about politics of the country at home.

I was teaching in University for two years and I saw many whose parents and grandparents have lived thorough 'Cultural Revolution' and even died, but they do not talk about it. It is a taboo. They have no information on politics, democracy. There is nothing on school curriculum. There is nothing in newspapers. What they know is propaganda, which comes to them through education and party organs. Now, they have been told that Mao was 70 per cent correct and 30 per cent wrong.

What is wrong is the excesses of Cultural Revolution, but the young generation does not know any details of it. What they know is that during Mao's time there was deprivation. Now, things are improving, now things are better. So do not rock the boat!

China was so intensely a political country. But, there was tyranny of the Revolution. At that, time individual had no choices. They could not marry whom they wanted, where to work and they were assigned the job in factories and farms. They were a small part of the big wheel of politics. So, for youngster of today, the ability to be apolitical and do the job they like is a privilege. They love it.

I used to question why they are not at all interested in politics or democracy. Chinese see India as a poor and chaotic country. But considering from where their parents and grandparents come from is it surprising? As a result, young Chinese have ended up being a socially-conservative group; that believes India is the reason why China should not be a democratic country. They show here dirty lanes of Mumbai and New Delhi -- people do not want Beijing and Shanghai to be like that.

Chinese benchmark themselves against the US and not against India in any way. The IT sector is recognized in certain sectors and there is the Buddhist connection.

Since two decades, what has happened to Chinese --�even the poor Chinese --�is fantastic because even the poor are getting richer. Absolute poverty has been wiped out in China. Even if you go to deep interiors, you will see poor, but not starving people.

During Mao's time, anything that was traditional was shunned because it was associated with feudalism and imperialism. Traditional dressing, religion and food were banned under Mao. Rather, some of the traditional thing is reviving a bit.

I think, lessons India should learn from China is that this country with an authoritarian government, which has all kinds of problems and has no independent feedback like independent media or free elections, is still doing better job of delivering goods to its people.

In India, once the politician is elected he thinks that legitimacy is in being elected and not in performing. Here one-party authoritarian and autocrat government is doing more for people than the democratic government in India. Chinese mean business when they talk about building the nation. Prakash Karat has come to China. He knows China stopped being ideological some 30 years ago.

China's best thing is that it works in its national interest and strikes the balance. It is not Bush mentality that says you are either against us or with us. Chinese may make noises, but since it is in their interest, so they will remain closest to US. They are pragmatic and they know how to co-operate and compete. Indians should not take China as enemy or as a great friend. China looks at its self-interest and is not generous about anything it does.

I find Beijing intellectually stimulating, but I do not have emotional connection with it.

I do not find that life here resonated deeply with me. It lacks something. It lacks argument. It lacks passion for idea. In one-party system, you are taught the same thing. It is against my grain. I think building roads is easier than the "project of India" to build vibrant diverse political system that we have. I think India's political future is quite secure. I don't think there is question mark about India's future. China is unable to deal with diversity. Moreover, the political question remains."